CO129-228 - Acting Governor Marsh - 1886 [7-9] — Page 212

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it be considered desirable to admit

the public in

in future

to the meetings

of the Finance Committee this-

power might also be reserved for the Committee. The question really

are to be

is whether reporters admitted, as the Public hardly

ever

attend meetings of Corneil, but

are content to read, the report of proseedings in the next day's newspaper.

I have the honour to be,

Sir,

Your Most Obedient Humble servant,

Marth

Extract from The Daily Press" of and September, 1886.

THE FINANCS COMMITTEE.

The following are extracts from the minutes of the Finance Committee laid on the tabla :-- 15th July, 1881. Mr. MacEwen addresses the Committee and protests on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce and the public generally against the meetings of this Committee being held in privato,

After some disonation Mr. MacEwen proposes, and Mr. Ryrie seconds, the following resolution :-

"That this meeting bo adjourned until the quer. tion is decided as to whether the meetings of the Finance Committee should be held with open doors, and that the Officer Administering the Government be requested to call a spacial meeting of the Legis- lative Council to decide the matter."

The Committee decide.

FOR-

Mr. MacEwan.

Mr. Wong Shiog.

Mr. Sassoon.

Mr. Ryrie.

The Treasurer.

Motion carried by 5 to 1.

AGAINST,

The Surveyor General.

The Committee then adjourn sine die.

20th July, 1886.

The Committee meet this day pursuant to the fol. lowing Minute by His Excellency tha Ufficer Adminis. tering the overnment-

W. H. MARSH.

Enclosure 1.

Before bringing before the Executive Council the rosolation proposed yesterday by the Finance Com. mittee, which resolution involves the serious ques- tion whether the practice of many years past is to be now suddenly changed, I wish that question to be considered at a full meeting of the Finance ommittee, as I am afraid that the resolution is far from expressing the views of the majority of the Members. I request the Finance Committee there- fore to meet again on Tuesday next, the 20th instant, at 4 p.m., when I trust that all the Members will And it convenient to attend, and will consider the proposition made by the Honourable A. P. MacEwen or any other that may be made in lieu thereof.

Government House, Hongkong, 16th July, 1886. The Minates of the last Meeting, held on the 15th instant, are read and confirmed.

(1)--Read the following Despatches in connection with the first formation in this Colony of the Finance Committee:

C. O. Despatch, No. 5, of 8th January, 187, Governor's Despatch, No. 69, of 1st Angust, 1872. C. O. Despatch, No. 1-45, of 8th October, 18/2. Read also extract from Governor's Speech of 19th October, 1878, and extract from Secret-ny of state's Despatch, No. 42 of 8th May, 1979.

Read also the following Minute by His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government :-

W. H. MARSH.

I thing that the Honourable Member who made the motion in Finance Committee on the 15th instant, that its meetings should be hell with open doors, has mistaken the object of the Finance Committee. 2.---The object of the Finance Committee, as also of the Committees of Laws and of Public Works, is as stated in the opening Speech of Sir George Bowen, on 28th February, 1884, to examine, in the first in- stance, the details of every proposed vote and men sure.' It is with the view of saving much valuable time in Council that these Committees were appointed here, as in other Crown Colonies. They perform precisely the samo fanctions that Board Committees do for Banks and Public Companies, and are, as far as my knowledge extends, never held in public. In Mauritius, from which Colony the practice was first borrowed as far back as 1872 by Hongkong, the system has worked admirably for over thirty years, and meetings are never held with open doors.

3.-Inone point, however, the practice in Mauritius differs from that of Hongkong, and I have long thought that the Mauritius practice might be introduced here The draft miuetes of the Finance Committee are there either cironlated for revision by the diferent members, or, in important cases, are revised at a special meeting held for the purpose. The minatos are then read at the next meeting of Council, and on the motion for their adoption, any Member may discuss them, and they may be rejected, us 1 have seen done in Mauritius.

4--One very important reason why the Finance Committee meetings should not be public is that the Government would be wholly precluded in that case from communicating information of a confidential nature. As a rule, most of the Secretary of State's Despatches containing instructions can be communi- cuted, when necessary, confidentially to the Finance Committee; though the Governor cannot publish them by laying them before & meeting when repor- ters are present (Sen Col. Rule 188).

5.Sir John Pope Hennessy informed the Council in 1878 that he was considering whether or not be should allow reporters to be present at future meet- ings of the Finance Committes, but the Secretary of State, to whom he referred the question, thought it undesirable that the practice of the Finance Com. mittee should be altered,

6.-It must be evident to Honourable Members that, if Sir John Pope Hennessy did not feel justitied in. making the innovation which he recommended, with-

out

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REC 19 OCT 26,

out previously asking for the sanction of the Secra- tary of Stato, I cannot take upon myself that respon- aibility, especially when the Secretary of State did not approve of the recommendation of Sir John Pope Hennessy. There is, therefore, no advantage to be gained by convening a special meeting of the Legisla- tive Council, since the revolution, if passed, must be referred home. The motion can be made, if the Honourable Members still think it desirable, at the next meeting of Conncil, which must be held in the early part of September, if not before, to discuss the estimates; and, if earried, I will forward it to the Secretary of State at once.

7.-If the public are to be admitted to meetings of the Finance Committes, the raison d'être of such Committees seems to me to disappear, and all votes for money might as well be discussed in Council, without the preliminary exam.uation of details, which has hitherto proved so convenient both in this and in other Crown Colonies.

8-I cannot help thinking that the Honour ble Member who proposed this resolution must have been under the impression, at the time, that the functions of the Finance Committee were more im portant and more concluzive than they really are.

9.-I assure Honourable Members that it is my wish that the fullest information should be given by the Government in all mattera connected with the expenditure of public moneys, and that I shall at all times be ready to entertain any anggestions tha are of undoubted advantage, and that I feel that Iļ am authorized in acceding to.

Government House, Hongkong, 17th July, 1886. Considerable discussion ensues, when the Acting Attorney General proposes, and Mr. MacEwen seconds, the following resolution :-

"That this Committee, having heard read certain Despatches and the explanations of the Chairman, withdraw the resolution of the 15th instant, and re- solve that the Meetings of the Committee be carried on as heretofore, until the qu stion of adroitting the public to the meetings be con-idered at the first meeting of the Legislative Council."

Carried unanimously.

(2.)-Read a Confidential Report by the Command. in Royal Engineer (Col. Walker, R.E.) on the pro- gress of the Defence Works.

Read also the Despatch from the War Office to the Colonial Ofios, dated the 19th September, 18 5. which bad been previously cironlated and perused by the Members, giving a detailed description of the Arma- pients for the Hongkong Forts, and showing the num. ber of Breech-loading and Mazzle-loading guns to be used for the fortifications.

The Committee then a journ to Thursday, the 22nd instant, at 4 p.m., for the despatch of regular business. Hon. A. P. MACEWEN-Sir, I rise to propose the resolution which stands in my name That

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in future all matters of public interest, and more particularly the voting of pablic fauds, be discussed openly in Council, and not, as hereto- fore, at private meetings of the Finance Com- mittee. It will be necessary I should briefly allude to what has taken place at the recent meetings of the Finance Committee, because there is every possibility of this resolution being put to the vote this evening, and there are cor- tain members present who have been lately elected or who were absent from the Colony at the time these meetings were held. Some few weeks ago papers were sent round to the Finance Committee suggesting a vote for a large sum of money to be applied to a certain purpose in this Colony. I carefully read these papers and I came to the conclusion it was a matter that should be disonased in public. I wrote accordingly, expressing this opinion. I re. ceived

very courteous intimation from the Colonial Secretary that there was no occasion for discussing the matter in public, as it would be discussed in the Finance Committee. I was not sorry I had done it, as my name appeared first in the list, and hon. members, more particularly the official members, would see the line of argument I was likely to take. In due course that Com- mittee was called, and you will see that I pro- tested, on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce and of the public, against the meetings of that committee being held in private, and the resolu tion I proposed, which has been read, was carried : by a majority of five to ous. On the follow- ing day your Excellency's minuto ceived by the members of the Finance Com- maittee, and in dus course the meeting you recommanded should be held took place, when another very important minute of your Ex- With cellency's was also read and discussed. reference to the part of that minute in which you allude to the Law Committee and the Com- mittee of Public Works, we have heard this evening that the work connected with these two Committees has not been very important.

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my